V7 Sport ignition switch replacement

Moto Guzzi V7 Sport, 750 S, 750 S3, 850 T, 850 T3, 850 T3 California, V1000 I-Convert, V1000 G5, 1000 SP, Le Mans, Le Mans II, Le Mans CX 100, Le Mans III, Le Mans 1000, 1000 SP III, 1000 S, California II, California III, California 1100, California Jackal, California EV, California EV Touring, California Aluminium, California Titanium, California Special, California Special Sport, California Stone-Metal, California Stone-Touring, California Classic, California Touring, and California Vintage models

Created: 2014 June 26

Updated: 2014 June 26

I extracted this thread from the Wild Guzzi forum. Special thanks to Jim Pissot and the other contributors to this thread. In their own words:

Topic started by: canuck750 on December 31, 2013, 06:55:36 PM

Title: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: canuck750 on December 31, 2013, 06:55:36 PM

I took apart a used V7 Sport ignition switch, the key was sticking and the detent pin would not depress to slide the ignition into the cast bracket. The lock mechanism is pretty straightforward to disassemble, after unscrewing the wire harness (two Philips head machine screws) and the four wire plug drops off the underside of the metal case. On the outside of the lock body at 12:00 and 3:00 o'clock are brass strips, they hold the sprung tumblers in place. Pry off the brass strips and carefully drop out the tiny springs and tumbler pins (they are different diameter on each strip), the length of pin is based upon the profile of the key, so they must be returned to the exact same spot. There is a snap ring on the bottom of the lock mechanism, once removed the cylinder can be removed. The rotating cylinder in my lock is heavily scored and several of the pins were broken, two jammed in the lock cylinder. This wear and tear is what caused the mechanism to fail. These are almost impossible to find in good or nee condition. I paid a lot for what turns out to be a dud.

The Guzzi ignition manufacturer is Neiman, on Ebay there are several ignitions for sale, the top half (mechanical lock mechanism) appears to be identical to that on the Guzzi.

This one is for sale on German Ebay (from Poland), about CAD $45.00

Does anyone know if these new Neiman mechanisms ( the top mechanical section) is the same as that on the Guzzi?

They sure look to be the same, I may need to swap out the locking mechanism tab from the old one.

Any experience / information would be appreciated.

Thanks

Jim

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition Switch replacement

Post by: nick949 on December 31, 2013, 07:06:25 PM

Jim,

I just replaced the switch on my 750S with a generic auto-style switch from Princess Auto in a heavily modified T3 switch holder from Mgcycle. The Zadi switch they recommend was a piece of unusable junk and I had to mod the holder to fit the new switch. Clearly its a botch job and I would like to return to original if I could.

Since I was assuming that you had great experience with the switches, I was thinking of grovelling to you to see whether you would take a look at my original switch to see whether you could get it working properly, but from what you describe, that now seems unlikely (the switch - not you...).

Thanks for the information about the Renault switch. It does look similar, and if you like, I will happily go halves on a trial test with you. Just let me know by PM.

I had also read somewhere that some of the old Simcas also used a compatible switch - you never know.

Good luck, and Happy New Year

Nick

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: canuck750 on December 31, 2013, 07:25:38 PM

Hi Nick,

I am going to order one from Poland and see if its the same size, I may not be able to swap the steering lock part but if I get a new switch for under CAD $60.00 I will be happy enough.

Here is what I found, the brass strips are pulled off the side of the case, the pins and springs have been dropped out

After the snap ring is pulled off there is a cast rotating piece, under that is a shim and a spring

The lock mechanism can be removed

and it looks like this

I tried cleaning up the tumbler, refitting three of the five pins (the good ones) but the damn key still sticks and the detent will only drop in half way, its just too worn out to salvage.

If the replacement Neiman lock works I think there will be a lot of folks who will want to replace their mechanisms.

Cheers

Jim

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: Greg Field on December 31, 2013, 07:45:57 PM

IMO, having owned a V7 Sport, that switch—which acts like an automotive start switch—is an accident waiting to happen. Yes, it is correct. That said, IMO, it maybe should not be. YMMV and all that.

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: Guzzi RAM on January 01, 2014, 01:43:11 AM

Hi Jim,

That switch appears to be the same although it is difficult to see the manufacturer's name on the top?

I had to replace the one on the 750S around 15/20 years ago.

Then you could source the same as a Simca car part? Although I cannot find now?

But this one had the correct wire colours or 2 brown and red.

That switch you posted is also listed for other Renault models.

Surely they sell Renault cars in Canada?

On UK ebay you can get one for GBP £18.50.

Good luck.

Rob

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: canuck750 on January 01, 2014, 10:19:16 AM

Quote from: Greg Field on December 31, 2013, 07:45:57 PM

IMO, having owned a V7 Sport, that switch—which acts like an automotive start switch—is an accident waiting to happen. Yes, it is correct. That said, IMO, it maybe should not be. YMMV and all that.

I agree with you Greg,

if the lock mechanism should drop while riding the result would likely be a crash. I am thinking of removing the locking parts from the switch on the Sport I just finished.

Thanks for the info Rob,

given that Canada has a large French speaking population you would think that French made cars would be popular, none are sold here. Renault was in partnership with AMC Jeep in the 70's and early 80's but failed to make any inroads, compared to Japanese imports they were crap. Peugeot and Citroen had a brief fling before they too headed back to the home country. We don't get access to Italian either other than the Fiat 500 through Chrysler dealers. Lancia and Fiat were sold here for a while, left in the 80's. There are a few Ferrari and Lamborghini dealers scattered about.

North American, German, Korean and Japanese rule the road here.

Cheers

Jim

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: canuck750 on January 10, 2014, 09:31:08 PM

The repro Renault ignition switch arrived today,

compared to the original on the top - same outside diameter and face plate, as you can see quite a different bottom half

I was hoping I could unbolt the bottom half and swap them over

That's not going to work, now for Plan B

The height of the top half is about equal, the lock plunger arm is a lot longer

1st cut down the casting on the bottom half

Note from Kim Anderson:

The diagram and instructions were really clear for the conversion BUT one of the cuts is perhaps wrong.

On my first attempt I cut the top off the body of the switch housing as instructed (the large part in the vise) but when it was fitted to the bike there was insufficient material to hold the locking block straight and it fouled on the Guzzi housing that bolts to the farm. So after you withdraw the key for the first time you can't re-insert it and turn on the ignition.

The answer is to start with a fresh Renault switch and cut the unwanted housing higher up i.e., in the photo, move the hacksaw blade 10 mm to the right - this means that you will be cutting off the alloy level with the top of the white plastic. There is still room for this to fit inside the Guzzi housing. Problem solved! I have a new switch that works like a dream.

Now to tackle the locking arm

Measure the original, cut down the new one

Now does it fit the receiver?

The plastic plug is too tall, need to disassemble it and cut it down a ¹⁄₄ inch, now it fits into the receiver

well no it won't, new detent holes need to be drilled, and the bottom of the casting needs to be ground out for the wire harness

Parked Position - lock arm down

Run Position - lock arm recessed

The locking machine screw fits perfectly

Just need to swap the wire ends over to blades to fit the original harness

Its a heck of a lot of messing around but it works great, when the key is removed the lock arm springs right down, the run and start position are positive and other some minor modifications to the receiver casting its a darn good match. The stamping on the face of the lock is not identical to the original but the rubber outer cover hides most all of that. If you want to keep your Sport or 750S ignition switch correct its a workable solution.

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: Guzzi RAM on January 10, 2014, 11:36:46 PM

Great pics Jim

What a pullover, but you made it work. :bow

Wish that Simca car part was still available as it was a straight swop as I remember?

Rob

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: canuck750 on January 11, 2014, 08:25:00 AM

If you remember the part number for the Simca switch please let me know,

Thanks

Jim

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: Guzzi RAM on January 11, 2014, 09:48:39 AM

Quote from: canuck750 on January 11, 2014, 08:25:00 AM

If you remember the part number for the Simca switch please let me know,

Thanks

Jim

Sorry Jim I don't but I've just joined the UK Simca/Talbot owners club to see if I can find out?

:)

Rob

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: nick949 on January 11, 2014, 10:31:59 AM

Quote from: Guzzi RAM on January 11, 2014, 09:48:39 AM

Sorry Jim I don't but I've just joined the UK Simca/Talbot owners club to see if I can find out?

:)

Rob

;-T

Nick

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: earlgrey-erfurt on January 13, 2014, 01:32:35 PM

i use this one from old FIAT DUCATO

only a little to shorten the lock mechanism

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: Guzzi RAM on January 13, 2014, 11:22:47 PM

Thanks Earlgrey. Sounds like a better option than Jim's Renault switch/lock. ;-T

Have had no answer from the Simca/Talbot club.

Noticed the key for mine has a Sipea logo, so I'm presuming that is the manufacturer who made the original one we are looking for?

Will try and take the boot off and barrel out, to see if I can see a part number?

Can then contact the Italian Sipea manufacturer.

:-\

Rob

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: Guzzi RAM on January 23, 2014, 12:02:42 AM

The Guzzi ignition manufacturer is Neiman, on Ebay there are several ignitions for sale, the top half (mechanical lock mechanism) appears to be identical to that on the Guzzi.

Spot on Jay.

Got a reply from Stu, the main moderator on the Simca Talbot Forum.

He writes regarding a barrel ignition switch/lock for a 1974 Simca 1100 front wheel drive.

The Simca number is E45093 or 4509300.

Chrysler numbers(replacing Simca numbers), 14786900, superseded by 56619200, superseded by 43074600

They used single sided keys, the later 80's Talbots had very similar locks, but used double sided keys.

I don't know if they directly interchange with Simca locks.

Generally they were made by Neiman.

So there are some numbers for all original V7 interest to pursue.

Going to try myself today if I have time.

:bike

Rob

Title: Re: V7 Sport Ignition switch replacement question

Post by: mrrick on January 23, 2014, 01:14:58 AM

Only 3 wires, but otherwise promising...